Michael Shermer undermines his own argument for evidence of UFOs within first ten minutes in latest Jesse Michels interview

Jesse Michels, a new member of the White House UAP Science Advisory Council, debates skeptic Michael Shermer over the strongest UFO cases: nuclear site incursions, the Nimitz Tic Tac, Roswell, and the suspicious deaths of a dozen scientists. Shermer, founding publisher of Skeptic Magazine, bets no major institution confirms aliens by 2030. A dry official claim gets a raised eyebrow; a bold whistleblower claim gets a knowing nod.